Views

letting a bank go down - are you serious?

a lot of copy paste - do those articles also tell about the repercussions of your wild imagination?

@kharb - with over three decades of that experience, have you seen a bank go down in India? the last bank run i can think of is also due to scare and rumor mongering like this - ICICI Bank during credit crisis of 2008, but you completely refute it as "academic & useless" - and that too was due to unnecessary panic created by rumors

do you know the current selection process of management at PSBs and other public sector enterprises? would suggest you read that up before going with all hormones raging - generic replies oh get a private guy on board and it is all a rosy picture for the bank/business

public sector banks and enterprises serve a different purpose and not just a simple profit motive

it was a PSB - Oriental Bank of Commerce and the RBI that saved the depositors of Global Trust Bank in 2004

what will happen of the 100 bagger DCB and 100K SENSEX dreams without a robust banking system?

since there's copy paste from the media - let me link to something "why your bank can't go bust"

and in the rare event your suggestions are accepted by the policy and decision makers, the deposit insurance is Rs. 100,000 per customer per bank, be afraid, very afraid!

"You speak an infinite deal of nothing." - Shakespeare

 

This is very rational-OUT OF BOX THINKING.

 

@kharb ji meant that our PSB are irresponsibly managed. and psb accounts for 74 % of our banking system. when psb are managed terribly our economy gets hurt. good banking system are essential for a economy to grow.

one of the main reason for the fall in the markets now are negative sentiments towards our banking sysytem.mainly psb's.

our economy can grow only when psb are made healthy enough to support economic growth.otherwise higher growth 7-10% will be a distant dream.

 

Could it be a bull trap?

 

Historically The chart pattern matches - MACD / RSI / SOCKO two places in the chart





Red : It is a Bull Trap and market went much low
Green : Market did not rush to a bull market , but corrected in time

Accompanied by Good Earnings of 2011 and 12 the bull run started



Thats why I believe the earnings are not yet supportive of a Bull Run

 

if you could spare 1GB of data and some 2 hours 10 minutes of your time, i'd sincerely request you to watch "The Big Short"

it isn't a work of imagination or academic and useless but a true story

PS : if the F word makes you uncomfortable, drop the idea at this, also no multi-bagger or value investing ideas i'm afraid

 

PS : if the F word makes you uncomfortable, drop the idea at this, also no multi-bagger or value investing ideas i'm afraid

 

amid all the noise and whining around EPF tax (surprised that just ~ 7 million affected and these ~ 7 million funding the ₹38500 crore! NREGA) rejoice, the govt is reconsidering the proposal to tax EPF

stop carrying Bharat on your taxes, just enjoy the demographics for multi-baggers and Sensex 100K

 

Gosh... Didnt realise the universe of talent in here.... Am awestruck at the number in here who know how to run the country and social welfare schemes

They should all be running the country iso of hunting multibaggers.

 

Now who will fund the 38.5k crore shortfall? Maybe the prosecution of the wilful defaulters and many other fraudsters from the PRIVATE SECTOR will recover the few lakh crores of stressed banking assets

 

in 2015 mnrega budget allocation was 34, 700 crores and in 2016 it is 38500 crore. the increase is only 3800 crores.nothing big to worry about wasting funds.
i dont think only by taxing epf FM can fund entire mnrega of 38500.
decision to tax tax epf may get canceled in future.

 

What about the corruption in EPF Department? May Company owners/ Employers don't pay the Owner contribution of EPF in time. The EPF Inspectors visit the defaulting companies but don't take immediate action. Company Owners/ Employers have to immediately pay (to the Government) the employee part of EPF, which they have deducted from the employee's wages/ salary. Otherwise they will face severe legal action. So most Employers do so. But what if they don't immediately pay the Employer's contribution of EPF? The Company Owners/ Employers can be prosecuted. But does the EPF Department do so?

If the EPF Department would ensure that all the Employers pay both the EPF contributions (Employee as well as Employer's) in time, just imagine how much money they can collect?

 

I would like to correct there are more than 4 Crore PF subscribers as of now and all are affected now.Don't be misguided from a statement of 15000 given later on by a known divide and rule policy of BJP.More over in next five years ,no body will be below 15000,as minimum wage will cross that.Today total corps of PF stands at 7 lac Crore. Even if I assume that those retiring will be having just 10% share ,due to accumulation over long term it will be 70000 Crore.Now assume 60% of this that is 42000 Crore. Now assume atleast 20% tax ,although it will be more.It is 8400 Crore. Now add unclaimed PF accounts which govt has silently decided will now go to govt.Earlier all these were with PF trust and might have gone to give high returns to subsribers after a gap.All this will fund a big portion of MENREGA and in future this anti employee Govt will increase tax to 100% of corps from 60% proposed now to start the process.So Entire funding of MENREGA from KAREGA Class ( hard working private sector middle class employees) .Taxing PF is return gift of Thankless Modi to hardworking middle class private sector employees numbering 4 Crore ,who did biggest mistake of their life, making Modi as PM of India.Ache Din of enjoying MENRRGA may never come (as all this money will be looted by Modi Govt agents ),but Bad days of private sector emplyees has definitly come .Does Modi advisors have secret understanding with Oppostion.??? Otherwise no logic for this act of Hit Wicket by Modi.As this is invester form,my criticism is restricted to Taxing of PF ,which is very important Long Term Investment of Private Sector Employees for their Sun Set Years.

 

Ya.. The EPF needs to be ALSO given judicial powers to be ablr to prosecute thePRIVATE SECTORS (1) willful defaulters of statutory dues, taxes,(2) fraudsters (3) robbers of public money.

HONEST isnt it what our PRIVATE SECTOR is!!!!!!

 

" “You will never reach your destination if you stop and throw stones at every dog that barks.”

Winston Churchill famously once said this.

Modi knows the merits of this profound quote of one of the greatest leaders of recent times!!!

 

@darth there's no dearth of talent, we can unearth hidden multi-baggers, reform taxation and agriculture, make policies and even talk about quantum physics (IDK what it means) but yeah keyboard warriors!

dear @kharb my sincere apologies for misguiding public. To make myself clear and give a perspective - I despise politics and politicians. I can imagine your gripe with tax. The educated and hardworking middle class. The numbers that you and others have shared are something beyond my understanding. It's the reality though EPF is now EET instead of EEE!

What do you want? Do you want unclaimed PF to be bonus for others? And unclaimed happens over a period of time, if not the State, who do you suggest takes this money? Also take a look at unclaimed bank deposits.

While you are at this, let me ask you a question - what with the generic India growth story, come what may, quality stocks - 1.3 billion Indians! Why the whining about some schemes? Bitterness? It's the 21st century! At least India hasn't got anything on the grounds like Social Security or NHS.

An article I read in The Economic Times more than a decade ago explained it simply why govt spending fails. The economist said there's three ways that you can spend money

• Your money on yourself : you'll be concerned about the money spent and the quality/satisfaction you get (ex buying a shirt)
• Your money on somebody else : you'll be concerned about the money spent but not the quality/satisfaction you get (ex buying a gift)
• Somebody else's money on somebody else : you'll be concerned about neither the money spent nor the quality/satisfaction you get (ex govt programs)

Anyways, got nothing to say about your gripe. I don't love taxes either. Apologies yet again for misleading the public.

What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.
......
A poor life this is if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

William Henry Davies

 

Regional Officers of EPF have quasi-judicial powers. They can issue warrants to search company premises/ seal company premises/ summon defaulters for enquiry/ order police to arrest defaulters. But they don't have judicial powers to punish defaulters. Defaulters have to be produced before the Court of law and their crime proved.

Main problem is corruption in EPF departments. The EPF Inspectors visit Company premises, collect Chay Pani and return back to their office. If they get enough Chay Pani, they don't present correct report to their superiors.

 

@BombayBoy - Dear friend I don't mean any misguidance from you,it was worded for Govt,stands edited properly.My all words or posts are directed towards only those who want to loot private sector employees PF by Taxing it.All long term savings of any type world over , are even if taxed attract long term capital gain ,where you even if pay taking into consideration inflation index. But Modi wanted to loot it like short term capital gain ,the longest term saving existing today..Even this cruel tax fall flat on its face if equated with any existing tax laws prevailing today any where.This cruel govt forget that in most other countries there are Govt social securities. Also there are laws world over if in your old age ,your income goes below income tax ,you can claim your previous tax paid as refunds .But in this country after Taxing you through your nose, you don't get any favourable treatment like in govt services prevailing in many countries. Only thing you can expect after paying your tax honestly is a demand notice for more tax.

 

What is the reason for such a big amount lying in unclaimed PF accounts? Who is responsible? Government, EPF Department and Employers. If your employer has deducted your share of EPF from your wages/ salary but not deposited the same with EPF department And/ Or the Employer has not deposited Employer's share of EPF deposit with EPF department, you cannot apply for EPF withdrawal or EPF Pension. The department will reject your application saying that your Employer has not paid the EPF dues. This is wrong. It is the duty of the EPF department to ensure that the EPF dues are paid in time by the Employers. It is department's fault not yours. So even though, your employer has not paid the dues, the EPF department should allow you to withdraw your EPF.

If the matter is in court of law, the legal proceeding take several years to complete.

If your Employer has not paid the dues for more than 3 years, your EPF account is frozen/ suspended i.e. further interest will not be credited to your account. Why? Is the EPF account frozen/ suspended because of your fault? The EPF department and Employer are at fault. Why should you suffer?

 

Govt claiming that Taxing PF is not a revenue generation excercise but for increasing pension is Biggest Lie , record of which this govt is habitual of breaking every next day.There is already a pension scheme in EPF,why don't govt improve upon it.They just want to confuse PF holders either to take 5% to 6% taxable annuity from foreign insurance friends of Modi govt ( which every body know will be worse than tax ) or pay for MENREGA.