Ricoh India

Dear friends.....is Ricoh India worth.at rs 595.....pls give ur views

 

good co. but has run up a lot. Very high pe. Best to look at other IT companies.

 

Which company then I shd look.at according to u?

 

From large cap, you can look at infy, TechM. Midcap I like Vakrangee, Tata Elxsi (Although I would wait for some correction in both). If you have the patience of 3-5 years then Rolta and AGC Networks are risky but great bets!

 

Hi, What do you see the price triggers in Rolta over the 3-5 years you mention.

 

@darth defense contracts will fructify adding 10-15k crores worth of revenues into their topline. They have an EBITD margin of 30% so you can add to the bottom line. Good projects lined up in Analytics/Big Data.

 

But what about the overhang of questionable financials - any merit in that? No institutional interest which the stock provokes.

 

What about persistent Systems after big correction, can anybody explain
Thanks

 

@darth thats the risk there buddy! Now I dont know about the future and how well they will execute. They do have a Battle Management System project worth 15k crore in their hand. They have plans of passing the defense projects to a subsidiary where they can get funding from FIIs or FDI. Yes, there is some debt on the books but I dont feel that they can't repay that. I dont believe that a company which has such a great order book, EBITDA margins (more than peers) and good growth prospects deserve such a low PE and valuations. AGC networks is a turnaround story, which will fructify in 2017 onwards. Again backed by a financially strong promoter group (Hindujas) which have good promoter holding. I dont chase the stocks which have already become multibaggers, I only chase the ones discarded by markets due to fear or anxiety. Ricoh is a great company, but again it has already run up so much! I wouldn't buy a 50 PE stock unless it comes down to maybe 350-400.

 

Hi, my point was despite the strong position in the defense vertical and other better parameters - the markets dislike to it remains. Does the Glaucus Report and/or something more which bears upon the stock and also leads to the stock aversion by FII's etc

Some holding remains in an associate ledger and remains there due to a similar disconnect we discuss here.

 

@darth markets discard and love irrationally . Kitex was love of everyone before the reality kicked in and now everyone is bearish on it. Just Dial is another example. 500 odd from nearly 2000. Even Ricoh crashed from 800s to 600 now. L&T, Lupin, Dr Reddys were all high PE stocks. Are they bad companies? NO! People are already in profit in that stock. So they will sell it the first, if there is slight disappointment. Glaucus research is not a credible brokerage house/analytical firm for me, unless these facts are corroborated by SEBI or other bigger houses. Now I am not saying that everything is hunky dory in this co. but it is a beaten down stock which is offering value. If you listen to management commentary and the AGM report, you will see that they have already huge orders pending. The downside risk seems low with such a low PE and big order book and 30% EBITDA margin. Thats good enough for me for some allocation. You need to take your own decision, of course.

 

@Gunavantha Persistent systems is a good company, however going through some tough time. Global growth is slowing so there is some headwinds on the services companies. I am a fan of product companies. In IT space, there are a few good product companies and I think one should allocate money in them rather than services companies. Product companies make big money (Eg. Apple, Google, MS etc.) as compared to service companies. One can look at Intellect Design Arena as well (On correction). Tata Elxsi would have been a great buy at around Rs. 1000, but not now. Rolta, AGC Networks are good product companies but again I repeat they are risky businesses. Vakrangee is also good (I bought some at 90 odd rs.) although again run up in valuations.

 

There is some jhoomla in accounts or fraud auditors are not signing report. Stock down 56% from top. Better be careful about stock.

 

See link

https://rakesh-jhunjhunwala.in/fav-...s-dread-another-satyam-from-auditors-dispute/

 

I still feel that there is value in this company, just let it correct. Its an MNC and have been around for a long time. I think it would be a good bet around 250-300 levels. You can buy it for long term then.

 

Phew! Dodged a bullet...was planning on buying Ricoh! Corporate governance issue seems like the trigger which will bring this down to below 100 I feel. Truly sad to see investor's wealth destruction though. It seems that you can't even trust a japanese MNC these days.

 

There is a counter view i read some place of all this being some kind of a management trick .... Though its obvious that this view is untenable

Just being a Japanese company is no guarantee of good corp governance. I take this as just another Private sector scandal perpetuated by the top management.

Any views on the TCS $900mln fine for stealing?

 

It is quiet possible that this can be a management trick or a trick played by the promoters. Remember, the Cadbury worms issue? A few years ago, worms were found in a few packets of Cadbury chocolates. News spread and Cadbury share price fell. After that, the parent company (Cadbury SchweppesPlc) increased their stake in Cadbury India. Cadbury India was then delisted.

How could a big and famous brand like cadbury be so careless about packing and hygiene. It was not. This was obviously a trick to crash the share prices of Cadbury India.

 

Nice... Very very nice. The script you present is indeed worth a Pulitzer.

Can you help me to believe that a Company (Ricoh) could have got not one but two of top four accounting/auditing firms and one of top Indian Legal firm to participate in this con job/trick. If proved that it was indeed a trick, then surely the faster the stock is delisted the better it is. Afterall this would be in the larger interest the Retail Investors. One less dubious listed stock.

Else, you (and anybody else propagating this) need to educate yourself of legislations, responsibilities, penalties, consequences to auditors and auditing firms for participating in such a fraud. This knowledge gained may not create an impact but will surely help limit proliferation of ignorance.

 

No contest with you Darth Ji. It is you who is the winner (if not Pulitzer then certainly some award). Anyways you have your victory and can savor it. For nine months the results were not published. Was the management sleeping ? You may conclude that one quarter could have been allowed but it is three successive quarters of no results. When the previous auditors refused to verify the results the management should have responded immediately. Instead by not submitting the results they have very cleverly avoided legal scrutiny on everybody. The company will face no legal action because it submitted no results. The auditors did not verify the financial results so they have no blame as well.

Now the management has brought the best audit and legal firm. To do what ? Audit the accounts and take legal action ? Were not the CEO, CFO etc etc everybody who has been asked to go on leave appointed by this very management ? With them on leave I wonder how will any audit or forensic inquiry take place. They were in charge during this time so who will verify the accounts or be answerable ? So they too are literally are being released from any accountability. The previous auditors are gone so there is no reference of what was wrong or right.

At the end of the day you see everybody related to the company is free of any wrong doing. And you are the only one who is right.
Investors suffer and people like me who raise the voice are being accused of not knowing rules or legislation. What a great scenario ? You have your victory and you can savor it. No further ignorance will spread.

https://articles.economictimes.indi..._ricoh-india-ricoh-company-ltd-promoter-group