Kitex Garments - Does stated future growth justify its high valuations?

Discussion in 'Ask A Query About Your Stock Picks And Portfolio' started by Fun_Da_Mentalist, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    After it was mentioned that textiles is a good sector, someone was also kind enough to mention Kitex Garments.

    Since then I have studied their numbers and business model and details on management integrity.

    They look to be a great firm with a clear vision and track record of execution. But it is quoting at 40xEPS.

    What is a good entry point? Or does the planned growth justify this multiple?
     
  2. kharb

    kharb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    735
    I am unable to understand kitex high valuations along with page industry. There is no rocket science behind child wear or underwear.I have fear that investers finaly will prove to be ignorant child or left with underwear only once music stops.If you are already in party pl keep your ears to music and be the first to jump out when it stops.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
    San8422 likes this.
  3. Meenakshi Razdan

    Meenakshi Razdan Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    150
    These stocks are a play on the "brand" or the "lifestyle". The consumer feels that because he is buying a top branded product, he is getting better quality and so he is willing to pay a higher price for that. The branding works this way for all products, including for basic products like Milk, bread etc. The problem with such stocks is that the high P/E factors in the expectation of high growth. So far, over the past several years, both companies have been able to grow at a high rate, both with regard to their sales and profitability. However, if the growth falters for one reason or the other, the stock could either stagnate or there could be steep downsides for the stock. I think the Q2FY16 results will throw light on whether the growth engine is still firing or is faltering.
     
    San8422 and Srouta Mukherjee like this.
  4. kharb

    kharb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    735
    In these type of stocks we need to check what permoters are doing with their stocks ,there is rumour but I don't know that permoters of page keep on selling in Open market slowly. Can you check and confirm it,if yes than why they don't want to ride their own story further.Do we know more than them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
  5. Meenakshi Razdan

    Meenakshi Razdan Administrator Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    150
    The sale by the promoters of Page Industries is an intriguing aspect. However, it is not a new thing. They have been selling in bits and pieces even before the year 2012 (see Why Page promoters are selling their shares in equitydesk). Since then, the stock is up 400%. In February 2014, the promoters sold a large part of their holding to Cartica Capital. Even since then, the stock is up 140%. So, the market does not appear to be worried about the sale by the promoters because the growth has been consistent. However, you are right in the concern because if the growth falters, it could spark panic that the promoters are deserting the ship.
     
    Srouta Mukherjee likes this.
  6. Sachin pathak

    Sachin pathak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    128
    @ menakshi, quite clinical and to the point. And there is no reason why such stocks should not command premiums. Jockey one of the brands in question here is still mid segment, largely affordable, decent brand (and not like the many other produced which find their place on the roadside).

    Surely accross the datapoints of the 'innerwear/lingerie' range, there is only an upward move. Everbody is becoming brand conscious and wanting quality and name - and even willing to pay a price for what he/she buys. And in India, the potential of premium/luxury lingere is just beinging to unfold. This isnt going unnoticed by the leading international brands and its just a few years away ..that this market will explode. Page's credentials with jockey, will stand in goodstead then too.

    Sure stock could correct. Growth will surely slow down (given the base effect)... But it will rise again from an adjust baseline and adjusted future growth expectation. But growth in future is largely a given for Page.....unless the 'concentration risk' materialises in that they screw up vis a vis jockey inc
     
  7. Srouta Mukherjee

    Srouta Mukherjee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    769
    100% Agreed. Stock has done so well for several years now. No need to worry as no big competitor is there in market. Also, customer ability to pay + desire for branded product is growing! JOCKEY is very powerful brand.
     
    Sachin pathak likes this.
  8. Sachin pathak

    Sachin pathak Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    128
    @menakshi, any educative article that you can share on what it takes to build a global brand and what value does a global brand carry.... Even though it doesnt take rocket science to make the product whether its innerwears and clothes or any other

    Maybe many in here will then understand why a Peter England shirt costs 500/- but a Hugo Boss ( maybe same quality, fit, colour etc) will possibly will not be less than 5000/- ( even though its Made in Bangladesh).
     
  9. kharb

    kharb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    735
    Dear Srouta Mukherjee,Happy to see large support for stock and good logics but a textile company even in hay days growing at less than 30% in sales and profit and still commanding PE of around 75,permoters selling at every rise ,all such type of stocks at 25% correction already,this also corrected from 17000 plus to 13000 plus ,distrub me a lot.I am a chicken hearted person and can not sleep if I have this stock in my portfolio purchased at 13000 plus rs. Even at the cost of proving wrong, I will still bet aginst this stock .In such stocks people will buy only one correction,that has already happened. In next correction,counter will be empty with every one wondering except me,where the buyers have gone.Deep respect to all of you and your views but I would like to stick to my view just for experience sake.This is my view and in no way recommendation against buying this stock.I am neither invested in this stock nor has any intention to buy in future at such high price.I had advised against this stock on this site earlier also.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
    San8422 likes this.
  10. Srouta Mukherjee

    Srouta Mukherjee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    769
    100% AGREED SIR. If you are not confident about sky high valuations you should not invest because if growth goes then valuation will tumble down. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY!! :)
     
    San8422 likes this.
  11. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    In these cases the PEG Ratio plays a key role, I suppose. If [P/E] / Growth in EPS is close to 1 it is optimally priced; if this ratio is less than 1 it is still undervalued and the more it is away from 1 the more it is overvalued. This is one of the quantitative keys to evaluating high PE stocks.
     
    San8422 likes this.
  12. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    Going by that, the five year CAGR of EPS growth is 36%; the earnings multiple is 40. 40/36 comes to 1.11. But what is not clear to me is this : should one be looking at future growth CAGR or trailing CAGR? If it is trailing CAGR then how is future volatility factored in? If it is future CAGR, that is just a number which comes from management so not always terribly objective. Question is : how does one effectively use this ratio?
     
  13. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    There is management guidance stating they plan to double capacity in three years. If I use this as proxy for revenue growth ( not very accurate but anyway) forward looking CAGR is 30%. The ratio then is 1.33; meaning the stock could stumble by around 30 % if guidance is under delivered over the future quarters. Not a great point to enter.
     
  14. Carl Icahn

    Carl Icahn Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2015
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    92
    I think we must use the trailing P/E even though that ignores the future volatility. If the PEG ratio is 1.11, it suggests the stock is not terribly overvalued, which is quite comforting in itself.
     
  15. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    I stumbled upon an old note written by Prof. Bakshi on Kitex Garments. This was a class note meant for discussion with his students. Made for interesting reading.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. RAMA MURTHY SASTRY CHALLA

    RAMA MURTHY SASTRY CHALLA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Dear Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Kitex valuations are very high ...PE Ratio is at 40
    face value is Rs. 1
    and it is a textile company other wise company showing good results
     
  17. kharb

    kharb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    735
    Kitex is already down from 1070 to 830 and south journey continues. Page is down from 17000 to 13800.These stocks are not listening any Lecture of Prof Bakshi ,students have no choice to bunk the class. In ligheter mode ,I am just afraid that investers of Page may start protesting and demand to Modi govt to make it compulsory to wear two under wears.If not so, stock can not continue its dream run.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
    San8422 and Fun_Da_Mentalist like this.
  18. Gautam

    Gautam Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    13
    I don't recommend a fresh buy in this counter. As the valuations are high and if the expectations are not met there is every chance of a big fall (as also others indicated above). If you are already invested (like I have did @500 levels), I would say to hold on as Its a good company
     
  19. RAMA MURTHY SASTRY CHALLA

    RAMA MURTHY SASTRY CHALLA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    Ha ha ha ... good joke kharb ji
    In Stock Market all are same no prof or Vice chancellor , so many textile industries are there and more over they are depend on exports
    ...
     
  20. Fun_Da_Mentalist

    Fun_Da_Mentalist Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2015
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    169
    Let me restate my question : is the problem with Kitex garments that it is an ordinary business with extraordinary valuation or is it that it is a good business but with very high valuations? If the former then the implications are different from if it is the latter.
     
Loading...